Headland Preservation Group President Jill L’Estrange discusses the history, the challenges and the need to keep advocating to save public lands from long term leases with Michael Lester on Radio Northern Beaches on 2nd July 2021.
The achievements of Jill L’Estrange and the HPG committee, since the announcement of the public review of the Harbour Trust in November 2019, is an excellent example of HPG’s commitment and professionalism. Saving Trust lands from long leases and private interests was only achieved by sustained pressure and constant engagement.
Listen to the recording here:
read the full Transcript:
MICHAEL LESTER (ML): Thank you for joining us on Radio Northern Beaches Community Voices. I'm Michael Lester. We're probably aware that there's been a great outcome for the local community with the passage through the federal parliament of the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust Amendment Bill. This bears on the public access and future maintenance of the headlands North Head and Middle Head. Which had been subject to some review by the federal government this past few months. So I'm delighted to welcome to Community Voices to discuss this wonderful outcome for the community with Jill L'Estrange.
Jill's the president of the Headlands preservation group that has been working for well... we'll find out. But I think it's been nearly 10 or 20 years. To get this sort of outcome. Welcome to Radio Northern beaches, Jill.
JILL L’ESTRANGE (JL): Thank you very much Michael for having me on today
ML: What a great outcome. It seems that we've achieved through the endeavours of you and the community group that you're involved with. The Headland Preservation group. What exactly has been passed through the parliament?.
JL: It's an amendment to the act including various issues. The major ones that we saw were: who should retain the management of trust lands; leasing proposals over trust lands; and, also the constitution of the trust board. And various other issues. But the main ones that were really important to the community was, who should have the management of the lands and the long term leasing of land just to ensure that they were protected against inappropriate alienation.
ML: Why was it important? That the Commonwealth should retain responsibility for the management of these lands as distinct from other entities? Was there discussion of say the state government or local councils?
JL: There was discussion mainly, of the state government. The Commonwealth and the Trust was set up as an interim body only and its finite time was to expire in 2033. In which case under the legislation, the lands were to go to New South Wales to be transferred and included into the national park system. So with 2033 being the finite life of the trust, it was becoming an impediment, even though we haven’t reached that time, because the Trust has been unable to complete the rehabilitation of the sites due to lack of financial support.
So it was important to determine who should continue to have the management of these sites. It was considered that perhaps the NSW Government was better placed. However, there was overwhelming community support, that while the Commonwealth had done a great job to date with these sites it had lacked adequate funding. And also under Commonwealth management and the terms of the Sydney Harbour Federation trust act it's very strong in its legislative controls for protection conservation and interpretation of the environment and heritage values of these very special lands. I mean, these are no ordinary suburban Parklands and it's very important that the strong protections in the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust Act be retained.
ML: So the strong protections have been maintained at the federal level for those broader objectives, environmental, social and cultural. But you've mentioned that a contentious issue for a long while has been the lack of funding to rehabilitate the property. I understand that we're talking in the order of maybe tens of millions of dollars necessary. And mainly to rehabilitate a lot of those older buildings, which can't be used because they're asbestos.
JL: You're right. It's a little bit more than tens of millions of dollars. There are various sites around the Harbour, not only North Head and Middle Head, but you've got Cockatoo Island, which is in great need of further rehabilitation. And of course [Cockatoo] being an ex Naval and maritime industrial island there is a lot of contamination on that island. So we're looking really at a minimum of $200 million plus needed for these lands now, not in one year but over a period of time. I mean, you can't spend 200 million plus dollars in one year. But, we really need a commitment of that sort of figure for these lands.
ML: So given the passage of this legislation that retains it now, indefinitely in Commonwealth hands through the Federation trust. What's the funding situation? Is there any outcome or decision on that or is that still something that has to be pursued and put in place?
JL” That is still something that has to be pursued and put in place.
The Commonwealth will be able to fund as it rehabilitates the buildings and as they are adaptively reduced. Of course, that will start to create an income for the trust and we've seen that happen on Middle Head, and very successfully on Middle Head. However, we do need Commonwealth funding. We need philanthropic funding. We need funding from perhaps the NSW government, because these lands are very important to Tourism NSW. To ensure that they can be rehabilitated, conserved and interpreted for everybody to enjoy. So, the built environment lends itself to adaptive reuse and leasing as I mentioned, and that was one of the major aspects of our legislative goals actually.
ML: Yes one, in fact, whenever you raise money and the need for public monies, and that's a lot of money needed here. A lot of people turn governments to the private sector in ideas of privatisation and the private sector to generate the money. Which might've led to the discussions of the issue with the future of the trust about the leasing arrangements. And in particular, the propositions that were around for very long term private sector leases, what was the outcome on that for you?
JL: Well, there was an Independent Review into the Trust as listeners might remember. And that was held in 2019. When the review report came out in 2020 it left the door open for long term leasing. Now HPG's position on that is that long-term leasing of 99 years, or, in actual fact, anything over 49 years, is the effective alienation of land. Yes, and sometimes these lands are in unique positions. Cockatoo Island is in the centre of the Harbour. North Head and Middle Head have unsurpassed views of the Harbour, and with North Head out to the Pacific Ocean. So they're attracting people and developers. HPG was very concerned that long-term leasing, which is the effective sale of land, would see public land go into private ownership. Yes, and for that reason we have fought long and hard to ensure that leases are capped at 35 years. There are now no long term leases equivalent to the sale of land allowed.
ML: Right? And I believe for leases longer than 25 years there's a commitment to public consultation as well. Is that right?
That's correct. The normal time of a lease would be for 25 years. And that's a normal commercial length of lease in anybody's terms, but in rare cases where a longer lease might be required for capital investment in some of these buildings that are large and look it's very rare there are very few that would need a longer lease than 25 years. Then the trust must consult the community before a proposal for a longer lease is developed. And then the proposal for a long-term lease 25 to 35 years must accompany a Trust report on the community consultation. And then it must be placed before both houses of parliament and the minister for final scrutiny. So there are checks and balances along the way. And the community does have a say it does have an input and that's very important because the community is the primary beneficiary of the trust.
ML: Now, these are two wonderful outcomes with the passage of this legislation and it's taken a lot of work. How many years of work? Has gone into getting this sort of outcome through the Headland Preservation Group?
The Headland Preservation Group was actually formed 25 years ago this year. And it was formed to establish the trust and protect the lands at Middle Head being developed by Defence for housing. And ever since that we have, our role has really been to ensure that the vision of the trust which HPG was instrumental in establishing and the provisions of the Trust Act remain the driver on the ongoing management and rehabilitation and interpretation of these sites. The vision is to provide a lasting legacy for the people of Australia by helping to create one of the finest foreshore parks in the world and provide places that greatly enrich the cultural life of the city and the nation.
ML: That's a wonderful vision that you've been successfully pursuing with this good outcome. What do you think has been the key to the success of this sort of community based action that you've undertaken through the Headland Preservation Group?
JL: Michael, it's been a very long journey. And it really did start with the independent review of the trust back in 2019. Where the idea of management of the trust or continuing management of the trust was raised. And the idea of private public partnerships to fund the trust with long-term leasing. And what happened there was, although various forums were held by the reviewers, the community did not know that there was a review underway or the crucial importance of this review and the decisions that might be forthcoming from it. And we were concerned. So, we actually went to the media, basically radio, the papers, our own website, to try and make the public aware. And we also pressed for a further forum to be held, and this was way after the consultation period. And we did a letterbox drop to the community, a 15,000 letterbox drop. And, at the community forum held in February 2020, well over 300 people attended and many were turned away because the room had reached capacity. We had implored the minister on radio to attend this forum and to listen to the community. Which she did. And at that forum, she heard the message. And that was from the community: the Commonwealth to retain the management of the lands, and no long term leases.
ML: So your main efforts and principal source of success was in mobilising community awareness and position on this. You mentioned you did this through the media. Over a period of time. I mean accessing the media and mobilising takes a lot of energy, time and maybe even money. How, how were you resourced and able to undertake these community-based activities?
JL: Well in actual fact, it didn't take any money because we don't have any money.
It took the manpower, and it took a committee who was absolutely committed and a talented committee. They felt that this was such an important issue that we really must put all our strengths into trying to really stop the alienation of public land for private purposes. And it became very obvious with Cockatoo Island, and the Cockatoo Island foundation proposal for an art island that this was indeed a real possibility.
ML: So, how were you able to effectively engage politically? With ministers? There are many issues that community groups raise and have meetings, but their engagement to a successful outcome, with government and ministers, is often very elusive.
JL: Yes, with the minister Sussan Ley, attending that third forum the minister actually then continued to engage with us and engaged with the community. She visited the sites North Head and Middle Head. And so we were able to engage in conversation and a dialogue as to how important the sites were. And minister Sussan Ley, actually understood the importance of these sites. Look, the discussions along the way have just always been frank and open.
HPG has no agenda other than to protect, conserve and preserve these lands for future generations. And any politician that we engaged with, and we engaged with many, our local member Zali Stegall, the leader of the opposition, Anthony Albanese, the member for North Sydney, Trent Zimmerman, NSW Senator Andrew Bragg, Greens Senator Mehreen Faruqi, Member for Manly James Griffin. Whenever we spoke to them with our message they understood the importance of these lands. They were supportive of our endeavours. So we've received very wide political support and look, it takes perseverance. You've just got to keep phoning, setting up appointments and having a respectful consultation.
ML: One might describe this as quite a professional community organisation in its approach. Sophistication with understanding issues and putting this in front of the community and putting it in front of politicians. What sort of skills and techniques do you think? Have been important to you as a Headland Preservation Group in being able to achieve these sorts of outcomes?
JL: Well, we have some, we really do have some wonderfully committed people on our committee. And, for example, one of our committee members runs our website and it's very professionally done. We have people that have experience in media, property leasing, law, the arts, strategy, statistics. It's just extraordinary. And these are just the people from the community, a group that is passionate about what we're trying to achieve.
One of our many supporters, who has been a long time supporter of HPG and, and the defence of harbour foreshore lands, Phil Jenkins. He's a retired barrister from hunters hill, he was actually instrumental in HPG providing the government with a draft legislative proposal on leasing. So we could actually tell the government exactly what we wanted or what we considered was appropriate.
ML: So you were in a position to engage constructively in, in, in, with the government on, on specific ideas and proposals that they are prepared to listen to.
Jill L'Estrange thank you very much for joining us on Radio Northern Beaches to share with us the wonderful experience and outcome that you and your colleagues with the Headland Preservation Group have achieved in your endeavours to protect for future generations, the public access and accessibility to our harbour foreshore lands that we all value so much as a part of our heritage. Thank you and congratulations on your efforts, and all the best, because as you've mentioned too you've been at this for a long, long time, but there's still work to be done ahead. Isn't there?
JL: There is work to be done ahead, actually. And it does concern North Head and Cockatoo Island, particularly at the moment we are looking at draft concept visions for both those sides. And consultation is actually closed on that. So that's exciting going forward, but it is really important that the community continue their involvement in the development and management of those sites.
ML: Yeah, well, Listen, as I'm sure you can, if you're interested in joining in with this and lending your support and understanding if you Google the Headland Preservation Group and their website, I'm sure you can make yourself known. And try and add to these efforts.
Thank you very much Jill L’Estrange, for joining us.
JL: Thank you, Michael.