ABC RADIO 702 BREAKFAST WITH WENDY HARMER AND ROBBIE BUCK INTERVIEW WITH JOSEPH CORROZZI
14 February 2020
Transcript:
ROBBIE: Look, we we are going to talk a little bit about the harbour foreshore around Sydney and this review that the Sydney harbour trust has been doing. There is a request by the Harbour Trust for more money. They're saying that they are running out of funds essentially to look after some of those really prime spots around the harbour. There are literally dozens of former defense properties dotted around the harbour. Of course, the federal government announced the first ever independent review of the trust late last year.
And the federal environment minister, Sussan Ley, spoke to us back in December. She was talking about how the review would run.
WENDY: Yeah, why it came about? Because we had big questions I mean why this review and why now?
SUSSAN LEY (from December 2020 interview): The Trust is nearly 20 years old, since it was created. These were former defence lands. They weren't transferred to either private operators or to the New South Wales government. They've been kept and managed by the trust. They're now facing large costs for remediation, upwards of $200 million
So it's appropriate to take stock. Now the trust runs for another 10 years under our current legislation. So it's not a rushed process. I like it. The terms of reference are broad, because I want everyone to be able to express their views about what you've quite correctly described as beloved and iconic sites.
WENDY: Now, what has the trust itself have to say about this? It's released its own submission into the review. And the chairman, Joseph Carrozzi, joins us on ABC Sydney Breakfast.
Hello there, Joseph.
CARROZZI: Good morning. Good morning, Wendy and Robbie. And it's great to hear so much love this morning on your program. I hope it continues for the Harbour Trust.
WENDY: Yes, well, it is an interesting thing here. You're in a funny position, I suppose, in the invidious position, putting in a submission into a review on your good selves.
CARROZZI: Ha ha ha. It's like writing your own report card
WENDY: Yes, it is. Well, what what are you. What have you written?
CARROZZI: Well, it's interesting. We were actually part of the catalyst for the review being undertaken. So in that regard, we're really pleased that it's happening. And the reason we did that was because we approached government and said that this dream of Prime Minister Howard at the time to protect, preserve some magnificent green space in and around the harbour and stop it being developed needs to be continued. But the funding over the years and the federal government's given us about 200 million dollars to date So it's not a small sum, but there's work to be done still. And we just want the government, the government to give us long term security and tenure. We want the community's ambitions to be realised through the trust. And that means the legislation needs to change. So we've said in our submission basically three things, Wendy. Firstly, the trust needs to be secure as the custodian of these special lands on an ongoing basis. The second thing is we know that the government needs to make priorities and choices around funding.
CARROZZI: But we need funding to keep going with the work that we're doing for the community. And the third thing is that a lot of our leases that we can enter into should be more flexible so that when we work together with the private sector, not-for-profits and tenants etc who want to help to rehabilitate our sites, they should have some sort of longevity, in their leases so that they get their money back over time.
ROBBIE: Okay, then that is a tricky aspect of it, though, isn't it? Joseph because everybody wants a beautiful harbourside space, everybody wants it to be funded well, I guess from the government's point of view, they want you to be as self-sufficient as you could possibly be. But it's the reliance on that, that commercial entity within it that causes the real rub. Where do you find that balance? And if you're right and you are requesting longer leases, up to 49 year leases now for people who visit these really cherished places. If a commercial entity comes along that they feel doesn't really reflect the essence of it or the nature of it, it's going to be there for a very long time, if that's the case.
CARROZZI: Yeah, that's a that's a really good point. And I think it's that element in our request that has raised the antennae of the community, I suppose, and rightly so. We would not want any private involvement that denigrates with the overall core purpose of the trust or its assets, and that is to keep them open, accessible and available for enjoyment for all the community.
The tenancy of opportunity is just so that we have more flexibility with people who want to spend their private money in rehabilitating a beautiful public asset so that they don't have to recoup that spend over five or 10 years, which is just not commercial. But we don't want that long term lease to be seen as a substitute for privatization or sale. I would not and my board would not be part of any such arrangement because that's the whole antithesis of why we're set up.
WENDY: So let's talk about the makeup of your board. Yes. Tell us how you get to be the boss of the Trust. Yes. the Sydney Harbour Trust and how the board is selected
CARROZZI: Under the legislation The board is appointed by the minister. The chair Kevin McCann did an outstanding job as chair of the Trust. He actually asked me to join the trust nearly five years ago. And then when his term was up, I was asked by the then minister for Environment, Josh Frydenberg, to assume the role as chair.
One of the things that the review will look at is the governance arrangements. You know, should the board be selected by the ministry? Or, the minister or the department? Should the board be elected? Should the board be a composition of community and skills based. And that's a good discussion to have. But the legislation as it was enacted has the board selected by the government. And I've got no doubt because I've been involved in a number of board member selections the department looks at the board composition, what are their skills. How can they represent the community, the commercial issues, environmental, the indigenous, the military and all of those factors ARE represented. So, yeah, that's yep. Yep.
WENDY: But still, as you say, appointed by the minister. Just to finish. I. Have you been pleased or would you like more engagement from the public in this process or are you happy with the level of engagement?
CARROZZI: Really, really good. Really good point. I'm so thrilled that there's been a suggestion by the public that we need to have more involvement or the public want to have their say. That's a really good sign because for us as a harbour trust, the say to government, that our role is important. It is supported by the community and it needs to continue. The best demonstration of that is by having a commitment of the community to say, yes, we agree and we don't want this to be a transitional entity that then is wound up and the assets are distributed.
So the community's interest to date has been great. There's another public forum next week, which I think has been had to move twice to a larger and larger venue.
WENDY: Yes. I should tell folk. Oh, yeah. That it's going to be on next Tuesday at the Masonic Hall in Goulburn St. Thank you. Between that between 6 and 8 PM, it's free. But you must register you go to the federal Environment Department website.
CARROZZI: Supurb. Well, that's exactly right. So keep the public interest there and keep that support for the work that we're trying to do to keep these wonderful assets open for the community.
WENDY: Good on you. Thank you very much. Joseph,
CARROZI: my pleasure. Thanks for your time and your interest.
WENDY: Thank you. Bye bye. And that is Joseph Carrozzi. He is the chair of the Sydney Harbour Trust. And again, if you would like to go along, you go to the federal Environment Department website and just look up the Sydney Harbour Trust